MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
Joining me now is one of the attorneys fighting the Trump administration in court over its attempts to rename, close and renovate the Kennedy Center according to Trump's specifications. Norm Eisen is a former White House ethics lawyer and former U.S. ambassador who also cofounded Democracy Defenders Action. That's one of the legal groups representing Democratic Congresswoman Joyce Beatty, an ex officio member of the Kennedy Center board who's been battling the administration in court. Mr. Eisen, thanks so much for joining us.
NORM EISEN: Thanks for having me, Michel.
MARTIN: So a federal judge has allowed the Kennedy Center's board to close the building temporarily. You had tried to stop that from happening. The administration now says the main building is closed for seven days for repairs. Do you - does your client disagree that there's a public safety concern? Or do you think that closing the whole building is just a ruse?
EISEN: Donald Trump slapped his name on this building, and it drove artists and audiences away and cratered the very successful, ongoing operation of the Kennedy Center. He's closing it to cover up the fact that - of his mismanagement. Look, obviously, Congress appropriated $257 million for repairs. The money is sitting there. But the plan was always to repair in stages. If you have to adjust public access to a portion of the building while you do construction in that portion, that's fine. There's no need to close this entire building. And there's certainly no need to demolish it, and the court stopped that in its tracks.
MARTIN: So the judge in this case says the Kennedy Center board has to give at least 30 days' notice if it decides to destroy the building or significantly overhaul it. But as we heard, he didn't say anything about congressional approval. Do you interpret this to mean that the judge believes that the president and the board do have the authority to tear down the building if they deem it necessary?
EISEN: Absolutely not. The judge has made very clear, including in our repeated wins, on the naming of the building that Donald Trump can't rename it for himself - what an absurd suggestion - that Congress has legislated the operations of this building, naming and otherwise. That's an emergency order that is intended to hold things in place, because we all saw that shocking picture that Donald Trump was holding, a huge poster, apparently, Kennedy Center demolished. So the judge has frozen things. They have zero authority under the laws governing the Kennedy Center to demolish it.
That was a snap order that we got. We worked overnight. As you heard, there were a blizzard of motions by our legal team. And we succeeded. There will be no demolition. Donald Trump's name will never go on the building, and it will never be demolished.
MARTIN: Well, look, as we just heard from Anastasia, a member of your legal team said she witnessed a forklift ramming into building pillars. Now, here's why this is significant. The Trump administration has demolished the East Wing of the White House and began building this huge ballroom all while a legal battle was still underway. Ultimately, the Supreme Court did allow it to happen without addressing the underlying legality. So the question here is - two questions here. Do you think that the administration is already trying to cause permanent changes or damage to the building? And do you have any confidence that you and other litigators addressing this can keep the Kennedy Center from facing a different fate than the White House, the East Wing, has already done?
EISEN: I do think that the administration is contemplating demolition out of embarrassment and humiliation. First, because fixing Donald Trump's name destroyed the artist and audience space. And second, because the court won't let him keep his name on there. And he's saying the quiet part out loud. I am confident. Unlike the East Wing, we had litigation in place. We had a judge assigned. We immediately went to the judge. We got an order. And before the demolition had substantially commenced - there has been some glancing damage that they started to do - we got that order. And the Kennedy Center will not meet the fate of the East Wing.
MARTIN: You - do you have any more to tell us, though, about what your colleague witnessed about this forklift...
EISEN: Yes.
MARTIN: ...Ramming into building pillars? Is there any more you can tell us about that?
EISEN: Our wonderful cocounsel. We work on this case with the Washington Litigation Group, together with Democracy Defenders Action. And one of the lawyers from our wonderful cocounsel went down there because we wanted to know, is the Kennedy Center open or not? We'd been told by the government that it was a temporary fire drill. No, it was closed. And while our colleague was there, she saw a forklift ramming into some of the pillars. That, the seemingly massive construction fencing that was going up and other indicators suggested to us, wow, this demolition could be a reality. We better race to court. That was one of those nine motions, and we won.
MARTIN: And you're convinced that that has stopped?
EISEN: They will not demolish the Kennedy Center on our watch. It will never bear the name of Donald Trump either. I'm convinced of those two things. I do think that the shocking mismanagement and negligence of Donald Trump and his administration is doing damage. And we're going to keep litigating that.
MARTIN: That's Norm Eisen. He's a former White House ethics lawyer and cofounder of Democracy Defenders Action, which is suing the Trump administration over its effort to rename and renovate the Kennedy Center according to Mr. Trump's specifications. Mr. Eisen, thank you.
EISEN: Thanks, Michel. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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