LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Let's get a perspective on the trip to Moscow and Kyiv by President Trump's emissaries from someone who knows the region well. William Taylor served as U.S. ambassador to Ukraine during the George W. Bush and Obama administrations. Ambassador, good morning and welcome back to the program.
WILLIAM TAYLOR: Thank you, Leila. Good to be here.
FADEL: So Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner have been to Russia multiple times. But they had never traveled to Ukraine until now. Why do you think they chose now to go?
TAYLOR: So they finally figured out that in order to have a real negotiation, they have to hear from both sides. They had not - as you say, they'd not been to Kyiv ever.
FADEL: Yeah.
TAYLOR: And so hearing directly from Zelenskyy and his team is important if there's going to be serious negotiations.
FADEL: Do you expect any breakthroughs to come from this visit?
TAYLOR: No, because main reason is Putin has no intention, has given no indication that he's willing to make any concessions, that he's willing to stop the war, that he's willing to negotiate for a - agree to a ceasefire. There's no indication from Putin. That's the real - that's the key, Leila.
FADEL: But the war has inflicted major losses on both sides. And these visits are happening at a dangerous moment for both Russia and Ukraine because both sides have escalated air attacks. I mean, is there any motivation now for Russia to come to a ceasefire agreement or at least to start being open to it?
TAYLOR: Absolutely, absolutely. As you say, the Ukrainians are battering the Russians, military targets, military industrial base. They're battering the economic side. They're battering the energy. So the Russians have a lot at stake. Their economy is in terrible shape. But Putin has given no indication he is responding to that pressure. That pressure just needs to increase, and that will be the incentive he'll have to come to the table.
FADEL: Who holds the upper hand right now when it comes to the military battlefield, combat?
TAYLOR: The military battlefield is split. The Ukrainians are doing great on the ground, they're doing great on the sea, they are holding their own. They're battering, both sides. Both sides are battering each other in the air. The Ukrainians have great support from allies. The Russians don't. So in that regard, the Ukrainians have an advantage.
FADEL: And right now, how do you see the U.S. role, given this visit, but also, the Trump administration's very focused on a different war that it started alongside Israel against Iran?
TAYLOR: And the Russia - and the U.S. influence has declined, as the assistance that the Americans have - that we Americans are providing to the Ukrainians has gone down. There's virtually no military assistance. There's virtually no financial support. So the influence that the United States wields in that part of the country, in that part of the world is clearly down.
FADEL: But does this visit change at least the narrative of that?
TAYLOR: It does, to a degree. As you say, it's the first time that Witner and Kushner have - Witkoff and Kushner have been there. That's a good sign. That's a very good sign. It indicates that they are willing to listen to both sides and move that thing forward. However, Kushner said out loud the quiet part, which he said, we want these trilateral discussions because at that time, we can have the Ukrainians talking to the Russians instead of us talking to the Ukrainians about what the Russian view is.
FADEL: When you say he said the quiet part out loud, you're saying the U.S. has been Russia's messenger?
TAYLOR: Witkoff has been Russia's messenger. Exactly. He's been there eight times. He listens to Putin over and over. He comes back out and parrots the Russian line. It puts pressure on the Ukrainians to agree to the Russian line. That apparently has changed.
FADEL: Now, if you were still serving as a diplomat, what would you change in the Trump administration's approach to this conflict? And what would you tell them to do right now?
TAYLOR: Strongly support the Ukrainians on the military side and on the energy side, on the air defense side. The Ukrainians are looking at a very grim winter. Last winter was terrible weather, and the Russians took great advantage. The Russians are going to do that again this time. The Ukrainians need that support to be able to defend themselves. This is in the U.S. interest that the Ukrainians stop the Russians. It's a security issue for us. It's a security issue for the Europeans. That's why the Europeans are stepping up so well. So the support from the United States is crucially important if we want to stop this war.
FADEL: And very quickly, I mean, what would the ultimate compromise you were looking for look like between Russia and Ukraine that they could both attempt?
TAYLOR: It would be a ceasefire in place. It would be security guarantees for the Ukrainians. It would be an acknowledgment that the Russians are in 19% of Ukraine territory, but never an acceptance of the legal presence of the Russians there.
FADEL: That's William Taylor, former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine. Thank you for your time and your insights.
TAYLOR: Thank you, Leila. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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