STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Our next guest is Jad Abumrad, who got to know Dolly Parton while making the podcast "Dolly Parton's America." Jad, good morning.
JAD ABUMRAD: Good morning, Steve.
INSKEEP: The podcast is amazing, for people who did not catch it. I mean, I listened to it years ago and some of the episodes are still in my head, so congratulations on that. I'd still recommend it to people. But tell me. I know you had got to interview her numerous times for that. What was Dolly Parton like to meet when you're in the room with her?
ABUMRAD: She was funny - a million jokes, just otherworldly charisma. I remember her laugh, all the bracelets she would have on that would jingle that she would sometimes use to create a beat and break into a song in the middle of a question. She was one of those people that kind of glowed from the inside, as you see on TV, but also in real life, and yet was utterly herself. It's a strange blend that she was able to pull off in every moment.
INSKEEP: Your podcast outlines her career rise. You have to work around some delicate mysteries, like her relationship with Porter Wagoner - this big star who gave her a break, but then she outshone him later on. Do you feel you understand why this person rose so far from such humble beginnings as opposed to somebody else who would not have?
ABUMRAD: I mean, talent is clearly most of the answer. I think there was a particular window in time when country music went from being a regional phenomenon in the South to becoming a global phenomenon. And she was there at that moment. You know, she's - she has a very particular alchemy in terms of just what she's able to capture about Tennessee and Nashville. She's the songwriter of people who have been displaced and have left home. I mean, it's why she's huge in West Africa, for example, places where you've seen rapid urbanization. I think her songs really break through. They speak to the loss that people have felt.
INSKEEP: You mean if I went to Lagos or someplace, I might hear Dolly Parton on the streets?
ABUMRAD: I mean, if you went to Zimbabwe, you could be in a stadium full of people listening to a Dolly Parton cover band.
INSKEEP: That's amazing. What was she like as a businessperson selling her brand?
ABUMRAD: I don't know that anyone has made more of their story than Dolly Parton. Like, she has used that story to create hotels, truck stops, most recently a museum, a Broadway show, several bestselling novels. It's just - it goes on and on and on. And she does it in a way that, again, it's - it never feels crass, although it is absolutely commercialism, but somehow still feels authentic. It's hard to be able to sort of put your finger on why it's always felt that way, but...
INSKEEP: I'm thinking of an analogy here about the way that she talked about her own looks and her physique. Like, everything here is fake. Everything here has been updated and changed in different ways. And yet somehow she still seemed genuine.
ABUMRAD: Yeah. She sort of owns the artifice in a way that feels utterly authentic.
INSKEEP: How do you think she stayed in touch with ordinary people as she became more and more extraordinary in her life?
ABUMRAD: After spending so much time with her as a journalist, I had a chance to sort of see her in social situations. And it's extraordinary what happens when Dolly Parton walks into the room. I mean, I remember my dad - my dad, who is really her - a close friend of hers, which is...
INSKEEP: Right.
ABUMRAD: ...The only reason I had access.
INSKEEP: Exactly.
ABUMRAD: She - the three of us went to a concert. And I got to see the effect that Dolly Parton has on a small group of people, and it's extraordinary. Like, she changes rooms so profoundly that it - you know, having connections with ordinary people became almost impossible.
INSKEEP: I love listening to you, Jad, because you acknowledge, after all this time of studying this person, there's a little bit of mystery there. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it.
ABUMRAD: Absolutely. Thank you, Steve.
INSKEEP: Jad Abumrad is a professor at Vanderbilt University, creator of Radiolab and of the podcast "Dolly Parton's America."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "OLD FLAMES CAN'T HOLD A CANDLE TO YOU")
DOLLY PARTON: (Singing) No one can light up the night like you do. Flickering embers of love, I've known one or two. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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