LEILA FADEL, HOST:
For more on the prospect of a two-state solution, we're joined by Aaron David Miller. He's a former State Department Middle East negotiator who has advised secretaries of state in both Republican and Democratic administrations. He's also a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for Peace. Welcome back to the program. Good morning.
AARON DAVID MILLER: Good morning. Thanks for having me, Leila.
FADEL: So two members of the Security Council, the U.K. and France, have now recognized Palestine, along with other Western allies of the United States and Israel. Does recognizing Palestine as a state make a two-state solution more possible?
MILLER: Oh, a great no. Let's be clear. I probably am one of the last human Americans on the planet to believe that a two-state solution is the least bad solution to the conflict and probably the only one that could end it. But the notion that Israelis and Palestinians, even with effective mediators, could sit down and negotiate the four or five core issues - border security, refugees, Jerusalem, end of all conflict and claims - and do so in the wake of October 7, frankly, is an idea tethered to a galaxy far, far away rather than the realities back here on planet Earth.
FADEL: So what is the alternative here? I mean, this is largely, it seems like, a pressure campaign - right? - from U.S. and Israeli allies to get something to change because there isn't any viable peace process going on at all. So what are the alternatives, as somebody who still believes in a solution that a lot of other people just feel has failed and allowed for a status quo to continue?
MILLER: You know, it's a critically important question, I think. Look, the interesting thing is today, President Trump will be meeting with Arab leaders from Turkey - not an Arab country, but an Islamic country - Egypt, Jordan, the Emiratis, the Saudis, about an end to the war and what his ideas are for ending it.
It seems to me that if Europeans, Arab states and the U.S. wanted to invest in something, it wouldn't be in trying to force a negotiation, or even recognize a Palestinian state, to be tucked away and - for a rainy day. It would be finding a pathway to end the war, relieve the misery of the hostages and their families and the 2 million Palestinians who are suffering in Gaza today, figure out an alternative to Hamas and create a pathway that might over time actually, with new leaders in Israel and among Palestinians, maybe offer some hope that a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will be possible. You can't get beyond October 7. It's got to be dealt with, and that means ending the war.
FADEL: But what possibility is there? I mean, the ceasefire talks have completely broken down. In fact, Israel bombed Qatar to strike Hamas negotiators that were reviewing a U.S. proposal. The hostages are still being held in Gaza by Hamas in terrible conditions. There are daily Israeli attacks that continue not just in Gaza, but in other places like Lebanon. There's an increase in settler violence in the West Bank, where Israel has continued to annex land, which is deemed illegal under international law and is detrimental to a future Palestinian state. So what pathway is there when everything this administration and the previous administration has done have - has so far failed?
MILLER: You know, it's a fantastic question, and I'd add three more. Who or what is going to govern Gaza? Who or what is going to guarantee...
FADEL: Yeah.
MILLER: ...Security, preempt further conflict between Israel and Hamas or any Palestinian derivative? And who or what is going to deliver humanitarian assistance on a predictable and regular basis? And then who or what is going to supply the dollars required, the billions required for reconstruction of Gaza? I mean, I wish I had answers to these questions, Leila. I don't. What you need is what's been missing. And frankly, right now we don't have it. You need leadership in Israel.
FADEL: Right.
MILLER: You need leadership in Washington. And you need some semblance of a Palestinian national movement that is effective and can control and create a monopoly of violence on the forces within Palestinian society. You don't have any of those things.
FADEL: Yeah. So in this moment, if it's not recognizing the Palestinian state, as we've seen many countries do, what leverage, what pressure needs to come to bear here, in the few seconds we have left?
MILLER: Look, I'll speak as an American. Governing is about choosing. It's about making an issue a priority. And the reality is, we've allowed our special relationship with Israel. It can be used very effectively and has been used effectively. Kissinger, Carter and Baker - the three Americans who actually produced something - the relationship was special, but it was not exclusive, which meant that the United States could demonstrate its own independence at the negotiating table.
FADEL: Aaron David Miller is a former State Department Middle East negotiator and a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for Peace. Thank you.
MILLER: Thank you.
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